Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. She is renowned for tracking. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. How many mountain lions are in New Hampshire? - AnswersAll The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. 1957. I don't know if she still is. Pelosi story here we go. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. No I saw a camel. Patrick Tate: Well. Here it is. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. So Michael follows with the question. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. Yeah I did. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Thank you. Why are there so many false positives? Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. We're not in the woods. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. I have one that's more elaborate than that. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. John. So they're scary. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy Okay. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Gap Mountain Lions Club The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Tell us your story. Think you've seen a mountain lion? You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Can you look into this picture. Think You Saw A Mountain Lion in N.H.? - New Hampshire Public Radio Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. So do they. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. One was in Shelton. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Thanks for your call. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Less successful males roam further. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. What do you think that. Caller: I do. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Is this kind of a typical story. So what those ranges. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Rick van de Poll: Yes. 44-N Links. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Tim Yeah. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. Have a photo. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. They're just moving around freely. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. And it's not really strong. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. Mountain Lions in NH - Facebook We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. No that's a little bit outside the range. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Well I can't tell you what you saw. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Caller: I have yeah. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. It was not a bobcat. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Can we go to the site. A lot of times. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Women control our lives. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? And you know all that. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. We'll push great photos to the front page. Give today. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. 50 feet above the most. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. But you've done some reporting on this. I think that you probably are. That's next time on one day. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. They absolutely do. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Is that typically what was happening there. Post your sightings and NH photos here! There was no sign of it. Have you seen one. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. So what counts as verifiable evidence? When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. Think you've seen a mountain lion. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Mountain Lions in New England: Sightings, Science & Bobcat vs Mountain Lion Mountain Lion in New Hampshire? - Bowsite.com Thank you. You're on the air. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. I found a second scat scent both to him. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. Right. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. So now what's going on. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Are there mountain lions in New Hampshire? : r/newhampshire - reddit So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. They just end up in these places. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. Thanks for taking my call. I mean they're a survivor. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. And those are not the same things. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Sandy Hodskins, owner of West Meadow Farm in Bradford, New Hampshire, took time from shoveling Wednesday to enjoy the snow with her horse, West Wind. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Right. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Do cougars live in New England? Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. So there's even debate about that very subject. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. Thanks for a great thanks. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. Peter Biello: Ok. Seems reasonable! Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Rick your thoughts. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Love hearing these stories. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. Select image for larger view. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. 1,470 likes. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. On a dirt road. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. I mean it wasn't your idea. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. I can't. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. The report came in from a conservation officer. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. History of Mountain Lions in New Hampshire | NH Wildlife Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second.
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