concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and implied this was associated with Niall's dynasty. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. distinguish one line of DNA from another. Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent chieftains. Also known as Niall of the Nine Hostages.. There is a legend that on one of his ventures into Gaul, he captured a young boy. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. [4] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[5] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. He is known in folklore as a raider of the British and French coasts. While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. Patrick escaped from Ireland after six years of slavery, became a bishop, and returned to Ireland to convert its people to Christianity." St Patrick: Kidnapped by Pirates and Enslaved at 16 - HISTORY Niall and his dynasty. Nearly 37 million Americans claim to have Irish heritage according to a national survey conducted in 2009. I confirm that, as stated in this site's Privacy Policy, I do not sell personal information. [3 ] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include (O')Neill, (O')Gallagher, (O')Boyle, (O')Doherty, O'Donnell, Connor, Cannon, Bradley, O'Reilly, Flynn, (Mc)Kee, Campbell, Devlin, Donnelly, Egan, Gormley, Hynes, McCaul, McGovern, McLoughlin, McManus, McMenamin, Molloy, O'Kane, O'Rourke and Quinn. Haplogroup R-CTS11824 Niall of the Nine Hostages : r/23andme He was killed in his sleep while aboard his royal galley. For more information, please see our "Nialls first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. Niall of the Nine Hostages, (in Irish, Niall Naoi Nogiallach) is a quasi-historical character in Ireland's story. Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. Oh, got it. Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars, through critical study of the annals, date him about half a century later. Niall, who emerges carrying an anvil, is deemed greater than Brin, with a sledgehammer, Fiachrae with bellows and a pail of beer, Ailill with a chest of weapons, and Fergus with a bundle of wood. have sex with her. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Although its remarkable that nearly 1 in 10 Americans might say Kiss Me Im Irish! on St. Patricks day, its not clear if all these people actually have Irish ancestors or if they simply feel an affinity for corned beef and green beer. Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. Kathleen Hughes, "The church in Irish society, 400800, in Dibh Crinn (ed.). [4] Byrne, following James Carney, is a little more precise, dating his death to c. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. September 10, 2020. [6] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. As next-generation sequencing has become available, various chief lines have been tested. [9 ], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. Thousands of years is a long time. Although generally supposed to be a historical personage, very little can confidently be said of Niall's life. Copyright Claire Santry 2008-2023 Irish-Genealogy-Toolkit.com. A study conducted at Trinity College, Dublin, found that a striking percentage of men in Ireland (and quite a few in Scotland) share the same Y chromosome. Yet how often out of evil cometh good. Daddy of Ireland: The Yet did the Romans claim victory over Niall. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. The maternal DNA results showed greater genetic diversity than the paternal, including lineages that dated back to some of the islands earliest settlers, and some others that arrived more recently, ie: the Vikings. the right to found a royal line elsewhere in Ireland. Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish High King Lugaid Laigde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. Supposedly slain in the English Channel or in Scotland, his descendants were the most powerful rulers of Ireland until the 11th century. He formed an alliance with the Scots and Picts and sent ships to plunder England, Scotland, Wales, and France. Son of Eochaidh Muighmheadhoin #124. If Patrick was not this person, he would have lived shortly thereafter. Niall of the Nine Hostages. So, too, do about 1-in-50 New Yorkers of European heritage, reflecting Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. and our (21%). Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. r/23andme - Curious to know what other historical figures 23 and me Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late . Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. Slane Abbey: built on the hill where St Patrick is said to have lit the fire that convinced High King Laoghaire, Niall's son and successor, to agree to the preaching of Christianity. If Irish Claim Nobility,Science May Approve - The New York Times [11], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. A second, and probably less reliable, story is that Niall took a hostage from each of Ireland's five ancient provinces (Connaught, Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. Several testing companies can do this test: Of note to Family Tree DNA customers, this signature is found in .6 of one percent of the entire family Tree DNA database. The story then becomes confused. Cookie Notice Niall's first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. For an example of a list of royal descendants of the sons of Milesius, King of Spain, see the Milesian Genealogies . Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person, [2] :70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Niall exiles him to Scotland. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. My R1b P-311 comes from Germany how about German King 23andme? The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Here, according to tradition, elaborate rites were carried out between the future high king of Tara and the goddess of sovereignty. The child was rescued by a great poet of that time, Torna, who reared and educated him. Howard, W.E. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[2]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. 78-79 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. My original information was obtained from Genealogy information held at University of Hull. McManus, Molloy, Reilly, Rourke and Quinn. There is a similarity in both names that it is likely it is the same person. We have a common ancestor that 23andMe says is the progenitor of the "Niall of Nine Hostages" dynasty, together with almost 3 million other British Isles males. an outstanding beauty, dressed in purple (the colour of royalty) and wearing Reportedly he had fair skin, hair the color of yellow primrose, and deep, blue-gray eyes. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. [10], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Niall of the Nine Hostages (Celtic Twilight) - Goodreads If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. He conquered the Uliad aristocracy, which ruled in Ulster, and by this victory and subsequent consolidation of power was able to found a dynasty, the Ui Neill, which gave rise to the O'Neill clan. The newspaper articles are based on a dissertation: A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland by Laoise T. Moore and Brian McEvoy, with Eleanor Cape. I, A Social History of Ancient Ireland, Vol. That slave would later escape and go to become Ireland's patron. Famous descendants include Niall's great-great-grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. There is nothing weird about someone with 0.00% measurable Irish ethnicity being one of his descendants. He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). It turns out that maternal and paternal lines can offer some clues about Irish ancestry. This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. He is said to have three sons by his first wife Brioin, Fiachra and Ailill. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. They're the Garza clan of Lepe, Spain. Not sure how to get the raw data file form 23andMe though? The story then becomes confused. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. an unknown number of generations from Conn Cadcathlach aka Conn of the Hundred Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. 279. r/23andme. water. predominant, while the M222 pattern is found in 8.2% or one man in twelve. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. [25] Indeed, more recent estimates indicate that the R1b-M222 subclade marked by the Moore et al. the modern surnames associated with the Ui Neill include (with or without the O Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. ), I can investigate my paternal line, which is traced through DNA on the Y chromosome and passed from father to son. Irish DNA links to Vikings and Niall of the Nine Hostages Niall does not have verifiable remains that can be tested. for most of the next six centuries. [5], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. Even if you were alive at the same time as Niall, your common paternal ancestor still would have been thousands of years back. Niall of the Nine Hostages | Irish leader | Britannica Known as Niall of the Nine Hostages from the nine counties of Ireland that he subued and made tributary to him. According to McVoy this area was the main powerbase of the Ui Neill kings, which literally translated means "descendants of Niall". Genographic Project director Spencer Wells then discussed the study's collective results revealing maternal and paternal Geno 2.0 results. [3] The O'Higgins family claims descent from the Southern branch of U Nill. 2) 1. [8], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Even though I dont have a Y chromosome, I can learn about my paternal line through my biological brothers or fathers DNA. Birth & Accession According to legend, Niall was left on the ground by his mother Cairenn Chasdub as she was afraid of what Mongfind, the first wife of Eochaid Mugmedon, would do to the baby. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Only Niall kisses her properly, and she is revealed as a beautiful maiden, the Sovereignty of Ireland. The signature is especially however, steps right up to the mark, agreeing not only to kiss her but also to He is known in folklore as a raider of the British and French coasts. In Italy the Irish were primarily found in Milan and Naples - deployed there by Spain. Press J to jump to the feed. Hi, i've posted my results recently, being of predominantly Italian (paternal) and Polish origin. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. latter a misleading term that should not be construed as meaning the bearer had ), told me that Im a sub-type of a lineage called H6a (specifically H6a1b). See related article at Florida Irish Heritage Center. Niall of the Nine Hostages - Wikipedia Niall must have made many incursions into Britain and probably several into Gaul. Adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedon, a young Niall Nogiallach is out [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping of Saint Patrick (ca. And ocean trembled stuck by hostile oars". Tom Peete Cross & Clark Harris Slover (eds.). One of If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded and have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. Niall, who emerges carrying an anvil, is deemed greater than Brin, with a sledgehammer, Fiachrae with bellows and a pail of beer, Ailill with a chest of weapons, and Fergus with a bundle of wood. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. [3 ] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Following the genealogists' trail McVoy comments: "There are certain surnames that seem to have come from Ui Neill. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. According to 23andMe.com, "The spread of haplogroup R-M269 in northern Ireland and Scotland was likely aided by men like Niall of the Nine Hostages. hostages from the family of neighbours and under-kings. 4) [S10166] "Possible parents of Naill by Brian Tompsett 23 November 1997". The sources for the details of Niall's life are genealogies of historical kings, the "Roll of Kings" section of the Lebor Gabla renn, Irish annals such as the Annals of the Four Masters, chronicles such as Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn, and legendary tales like "The Adventure of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon" and "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages". Business, Economics, and Finance. Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. I descend from the same Sephardic Jewish clan over a dozen times. Niall belongs to Haplogroup R1b1c7 (M222). After reading through their ancestry reports from 23andMe, customers can now browse Airbnb homes and experiences in their native countriesand plan vacations as unique as their DNA. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. [3] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Sep 12, 2021. [5] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. A dated phylogenetic tree of M222 SNP haplotypes: exploring the DNA of Irish and Scottish surnames and possible ties to Niall and the U Nill kindred, Last edited on 17 February 2023, at 06:56, Learn how and when to remove this template message, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle, "Was Niall of the Nine Hostages a real person? When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. distinguish one line of DNA from another. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. 3 days ago. Y-DNA is 4.00. Sometime after 379 (when he became king of Ulster), he forced the other kings of Ireland to accept him as overlord when his sons Eoghan and Conal (possibly others as well) overthrew the Ulidian kingdom in the north. Katharine Simms, and Daniel G. Bradley, published in The American Journal of Human Genetics, volume 78, number 2, February 2006 (electronically published December 8, 2005. [26], Perhaps even more problematic is the dearth of M222 lineages in Midlands samples. You might consider getting a Y-DNA test to see if you can learn more. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Although brought to Ireland against his will, the . ), "The Story of Eochaidh Muighmedin's Sons", in, Stokes, Whitley (ed. the sea between France and England. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded.[4]:70. Niall of the nine hostages : r/23andme - reddit.com To see the names of the first thirty-five descendants from Adam, the invention of those Irish monks, go to Ancient Irish Lineage on the Our Early Family web site. Home - Niall of the Nine Hostages - sites.google.com Watch a video of a lecture presented at Genetic Genealogy Ireland conference to learn more about research by the O'Neill DNA Group: here. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish for "having nine hostages"), or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a prehistoric Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill dynasties that dominated the northern half of Ireland from the 6th to the 10th century. The story then becomes confused. However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. widespread in literature around the world. Though the legendary stories of his life may have been invented hundreds of years after he died, genetic evidence suggests that the U Nill dynasty, whose name means "descendants of Niall," did in fact trace back to just one man who bore a branch of haplogroup R-M269. Over the generations, a genetic All but two of the High Kings of Tara came from this family. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Menu. Geneticists have dated this It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety. Acceded:445. Killed in Battle. He not only ruled Ireland greatly and strongly, but carried the name and the fame, and the power and the fear, of Ireland into all neighboring nations. My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. Father of Fiachu mac Nill, King of Meath; Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal; Egan mac Nill; Legaire, High King of Ireland; Min mac Nill and 3 others; Conall Cremthainn mac Nill; Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland and ndae mac Nill less, There are arguments to be made for Niall as an historical figure, but the father assigned to him in the genealogies comes from a long line of legendary kings; his profile can be found here: Eochaid mac Muiredach mac Muiredach, Ard-r na h'ireann {Legendary, Lebor Gabla renn}, http://www.friesian.com/perifran.htm#england. xenophon agesilaus summary; He was one of the greatest of the High Kings of Ireland in prehistoric days, but one of the least known to modern historians.